What is better? Hereos and Henchies or Finding group - Guild Wars Forums

Sombre Assassin · Jan 26, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I was wondering what is better out of; heroes and henchies for mission or bothering to find a human group which can take up to 30 minutes for a good one.

I'm LVL 20 and the missions I'm doing have lvl 24s so heroes get owned.

VGJustice · Jan 26, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Depends.

Sometimes, I find a good group of players pretty fast, get in and complete the mission easy. Other times, all I can find are scrubs that can't figure this thing out and I end up just doing it with Heroes/Henchies no problem. A lot of times, I don't have the time, so Heroes/Henchies regardless.

If your henchies are gettin owned a lot, take a closer look at their skills. Maybe they're misusing some (like Word of Healing or Healing Breeze).

dgb · Jan 26, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05

If you suck at the game, people are better because there's a small chance that a decent player will take pity on your group and help out, whereas if you used heroes and hench you'd be stuck with crap bars that you give heroes and that arena net give hench.

If you're good at the game, heroes are far better and you can tolerate the crappiness of the hench.

Haggard · Jan 26, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

IMO heroes can be, and usually are better than PUG's. But I never turn down an alliance group, or a friend.

ShadowsRequiem · Jan 26, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

yah you sure your using a good bar on your heroes?

personally heroes are great, and often are smarter then most pugs.

Dzus · Jan 26, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Idiots without free will > Idiots with free will, most of the time.

If you're still relitively new to the game, don't turn down the idea of finding a group. Having a good time and learning a few things were the only things I was concerned about when I started, but also when I started I didn't have the luxury of heroes. If you think you can handle yourself on your own, then by all means take your heroes. I still find that I enjoy the exchange of words that a group of players has, though.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Jan 26, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Depends on what you value most at the time:

Connecting up with other people or maximizing achievement/progress in the game.

The 2 things are often at odds to one degree or another.

the_jos · Jan 26, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Depends on the mission.
I can hech / hero most of them, but some are easier with players.

In general I think heroes work better than many humans and hench are better than some humans.

I play PuG because you don't have the same level of control as with heroes/hench.
You can do great (masters on second last NF mission last night with a very mixed team) or fail miserably.
When you succeed, it's team effort, not only your own.
When you do the same with hench/hero, it's your own efford in the end.

GODh · Jan 26, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre Assassin

I'm LVL 20 and the missions I'm doing have lvl 24s so heroes get owned.

Allthough it can be good fun to play with pug's (pick up groups) i do prefer to play with heroes myself (sometimes i help other people who have problems with a particulair mission or quest). Lvl 24 enemies shouldnt be a problem while playing with heroes.

Don't forget that you control your heroes and hencies, so the reason your heroes get owned is probably because you make some errors yourself.

IMO the key to succes:

* Prepare your heroes for battle. Give them good weapons, runes and insignia's so that they deal good damage and that they can survive battles. Downside of this is that it can be very expensive. I probably spend 15-30k on each hero (i already have 30+ maxed heroes, so go figure)

* Give your heroes good builds (good balance between attack/survive). This may be hard for new players who never played older chapters, or who never played many different professions. And try to finds builds where hero X can help hero Y... for example i have setup my warrior heroes with "Victory is Mine" (get health and energy from an enemy that suffers from conditions), so i setup my rangers with poison arrow and/or burning arrow and throw dirt (which are conditions). The warrior itself is using skills that can cause bleeding and deep wound (which are conditions too). My warrior heroes are level 16 tactics, so a skill like "Watch yourself" can be very useful for the whole team (provides extra armor for an amount of time).

* Balance your teams. Find a mix of professions/builds that works for you. I usually use 1 or 2 warriors, 2 or 3 rangers, 1 minion master (level 16 death, but who also is a bit of bloodnecro... works very fine for me) and 2 monks (1 healer, 1 protector). I also like the motivation paragons.

* Don't fight too many enemies at the same time. Often you see a "big group" of enemies, but that usually are more smaller groups close to eachother. A good lure is often key to succes. Therefor make sure NONE of your heroes are set to 'attack'. I always use 'guard' for attacking heroes and for supportheroes, like monks or even my minion master, i pick 'avoid battle'. That way the chance that a hero f**ks up your lure is much smaller. Using your hero/henchie flag can be important too. Plant it there where you want to battle a group (on a place where you dont draw the attention from other groups) and then go lure a group of enemies to that spot.

isamu kurosawa · Jan 26, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I find hero's/hench to be more efficient in most cases but prefer real players as its the reason i play an online game.

I find it more difficult playing some mesmer or sin builds with hench however (when i am targetting something the rest of the team shouldnt) as they just hit the same target as you.

And i hate playing monk with hero's, i'd go smite to make it easier but i go on my monk when i want to play supprot not offence, so i try to find real groups as much as possible on monks....you also cet to actually see the crap some people bring on their skill bar

Jumping Is Uselss · Jan 26, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

I perfer real people to play with, but finding a group of people who are not idiotic and have a little knowledge of what they are suppose to do is hard to find. But recently I have been doing missions with henchies+heroes and I have not had any problems in getting masters in most missions. I found that bringing 2 SF eles and MM heroes are the best combo if you want to use hench+hero an example of missions that I was able to complete were Vizunah and THK.

sdrawkcab11 · Jan 26, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I think heros and hench ruin a big part of the whole experience and atmosphere of the game, you might as well play a single player game imo. Also they all attack one target and if you keep switching targets they run around like fools. Yes it can be quicker but i would rather play with communication, teamwork and have a laugh than do it faster alone.
I feel a main reason it is hard to find groups is because of hench and heros, if everyone had to the mission with others there would be more willing people.

Eli Rela · Jan 26, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

A good friend is best, even if he has no clue some time :-)
But good friend with nicely build heroes is even better ;-)
2 ppl + 6 heroes = steamroller

Gun Pierson · Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Well imo the best setup is 2 human players + 6 heroes for normal questing purposes. It's good to play with a few (real life) friends who love this game too so you can work out incredible powerful builds focused on fun and efficiency.

This is more advanced though as both need to have the skills and experience to see the big picture. Knowing all classes, equiping synergetic builds on all heroes including yourself and your friend but the result will be that you practically let the game play itself.

It's a fun way to get better, you don't have the chance on ragequiters or whatever, but you still play with someone, your friend.

EDIT: Eli, I was typing my reply while you posted yours so didn't see it, but we mean the same thing

Ouchie · Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Set up your heros with a great skill bar and things should go smooth

Having said that there are times when a real group is beneficial

Any mission which requires you to take a skill - since heros/hench can not take the skill
Any mission/quest that requires you to pick up an item and carry it
Any Mission/Quest which requires a group split to complete (eternal grove)
Anytime you feel lonely and want better conversation than your Heros can give

I would also suggest a mix and match of both Worlds - Take 2-3 real people and the rest Heros and you should breeze through most areas

Kuldebar Valiturus · Jan 26, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Yup, sdrawkcab11...

I tend to agree. It's somewhat politically incorrect to say that on these forums...but Heroes and to a lesser extent Henchies are negatively impacting the game.

I use Heroes/Henchies nearly 100% of the time. I have tried PuG's but they just weren't as efficient when it came to getting the Mission/Quest done.

I would prefer to play with real human players but I haven't been able to develop any regular in-game friendships with people. Everyone is spread out and going 1000 different directions.

Even a guild I was in...the people were nice...but they were all doing their own thing, often with Henchies/Heroes.

I have played other online games, I know for a fact that I "play well" with others, but something just isn't clicking in Guild Wars in regards to that.

My ideal would be to have 8-10 active players that hung around in game and progressed through the content together.

But, there in lies the rub. Someone logs in 10 minutes late, they can't hop in and join the Mission or the adventure in the explorable area. Just meeting up together can be a task. Figuring out each other's quests (they fixed that, I think) and Voice Comm is really a necessity. Typing in chat and fighting doesn't work well.

Players get pushed into using henchies/heroes.

It's like the choice between ordering Pizza or fixing dinner; fixing dinner is a chore but you can eventually get tired of pizza.

Ya, it is possible.

ss1986v2 · Jan 26, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

IMO heroes can be, and usually are better than PUG's. But I never turn down an alliance group, or a friend.

this is my feeling exactly as well. i use to PUG everything. i always found it more fun to play with real people rather than henchies, even if it meant having to endure some sub par groups.

but since nightfall, ive only PUG'd one mission, when i was bored, and it was a utter failure. i love the hero system. being able to choose which skills and builds are used is so much fun. it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. not only do you have to tweak and perfect your own build, you are in charge of a whole fleet of characters which you have to do the same thing. it just makes things so much more enjoyable. and for those that have trouble playing through the game with heros, its usually newbie (not noob) players that either dont have much experience with every class, dont have the proper skills unlocked, dont have the means to equip their heros properly, or all of the above. in their case, it may be better to try and PUG or even better, run with guildies.

that said, i have not, and will not turn down my guildies, alliance members, or friends that are putting together a team. when playing and talking with real ppl, who you know and trust their ability, the game is so much more fun, even more so than with heros.

Spellforge · Jan 26, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

To the OP - heros can be vary affective. Please post the following info about your heros

Level
Profession(s)
Skills
Attributes
Equipment
Any Runes used

Mournblade · Jan 26, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

If you want to discuss hero builds, go to the proper forum. :P

My answer to the OP's question is rather simple - Use Henchies/Heros to beat the game (quests, missions, etc.) but grab some real players to have fun. There's a gaming group called Phank that I read about from time to time - they are hardcore players but they have just as much fun when they fail as when they win. I wish more people could enjoy themselves like that.

Jan 26, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26	#1
Sombre Assassin Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: E/Me	What is better? Hereos and Henchies or Finding group I was wondering what is better out of; heroes and henchies for mission or bothering to find a human group which can take up to 30 minutes for a good one. I'm LVL 20 and the missions I'm doing have lvl 24s so heroes get owned.

Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25	#14
Gun Pierson Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belgium Guild: PIMP Profession: Mo/	Well imo the best setup is 2 human players + 6 heroes for normal questing purposes. It's good to play with a few (real life) friends who love this game too so you can work out incredible powerful builds focused on fun and efficiency. This is more advanced though as both need to have the skills and experience to see the big picture. Knowing all classes, equiping synergetic builds on all heroes including yourself and your friend but the result will be that you practically let the game play itself. It's a fun way to get better, you don't have the chance on ragequiters or whatever, but you still play with someone, your friend. EDIT: Eli, I was typing my reply while you posted yours so didn't see it, but we mean the same thing Last edited by Gun Pierson; Jan 26, 2007 at 02:29 PM // 14:29..

Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25	#15
Ouchie Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: [Leet] Profession: R/	Set up your heros with a great skill bar and things should go smooth Having said that there are times when a real group is beneficial Any mission which requires you to take a skill - since heros/hench can not take the skill Any mission/quest that requires you to pick up an item and carry it Any Mission/Quest which requires a group split to complete (eternal grove) Anytime you feel lonely and want better conversation than your Heros can give I would also suggest a mix and match of both Worlds - Take 2-3 real people and the rest Heros and you should breeze through most areas

Jan 26, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31	#2
VGJustice Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tyria, cappin' ur bosses Guild: Boston Guild [BG] Profession: R/W	Depends. Sometimes, I find a good group of players pretty fast, get in and complete the mission easy. Other times, all I can find are scrubs that can't figure this thing out and I end up just doing it with Heroes/Henchies no problem. A lot of times, I don't have the time, so Heroes/Henchies regardless. If your henchies are gettin owned a lot, take a closer look at their skills. Maybe they're misusing some (like Word of Healing or Healing Breeze).

Jan 26, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05	#3
dgb Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	If you suck at the game, people are better because there's a small chance that a decent player will take pity on your group and help out, whereas if you used heroes and hench you'd be stuck with crap bars that you give heroes and that arena net give hench. If you're good at the game, heroes are far better and you can tolerate the crappiness of the hench.

Jan 26, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25	#4
Haggard Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Urmston, Manchester, UK Guild: Greener Pastures [DVDF] Profession: W/Rt	IMO heroes can be, and usually are better than PUG's. But I never turn down an alliance group, or a friend.

Jan 26, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24	#5
ShadowsRequiem Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: Inde is Smoking [Hawt] ToA Profession: W/E	yah you sure your using a good bar on your heroes? personally heroes are great, and often are smarter then most pugs.

Jan 26, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39	#6
Dzus Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Order of Corrupted Souls [OoCS] Profession: W/	Idiots without free will > Idiots with free will, most of the time. If you're still relitively new to the game, don't turn down the idea of finding a group. Having a good time and learning a few things were the only things I was concerned about when I started, but also when I started I didn't have the luxury of heroes. If you think you can handle yourself on your own, then by all means take your heroes. I still find that I enjoy the exchange of words that a group of players has, though.

Jan 26, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36	#7
Kuldebar Valiturus Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Garden City, Idaho Guild: The Order of Relumination (TOoR) Profession: R/	Depends on what you value most at the time: Connecting up with other people or maximizing achievement/progress in the game. The 2 things are often at odds to one degree or another.

Jan 26, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14	#8
the_jos Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: Hard Mode Legion [HML] Profession: N/	Depends on the mission. I can hech / hero most of them, but some are easier with players. In general I think heroes work better than many humans and hench are better than some humans. I play PuG because you don't have the same level of control as with heroes/hench. You can do great (masters on second last NF mission last night with a very mixed team) or fail miserably. When you succeed, it's team effort, not only your own. When you do the same with hench/hero, it's your own efford in the end.

Jan 26, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31	#10
isamu kurosawa Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: United Kingdom Profession: Me/	I find hero's/hench to be more efficient in most cases but prefer real players as its the reason i play an online game. I find it more difficult playing some mesmer or sin builds with hench however (when i am targetting something the rest of the team shouldnt) as they just hit the same target as you. And i hate playing monk with hero's, i'd go smite to make it easier but i go on my monk when i want to play supprot not offence, so i try to find real groups as much as possible on monks....you also cet to actually see the crap some people bring on their skill bar

Jan 26, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42	#11
Jumping Is Uselss Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: -... . .... .. -. -.. / -.-- --- ..-	I perfer real people to play with, but finding a group of people who are not idiotic and have a little knowledge of what they are suppose to do is hard to find. But recently I have been doing missions with henchies+heroes and I have not had any problems in getting masters in most missions. I found that bringing 2 SF eles and MM heroes are the best combo if you want to use hench+hero an example of missions that I was able to complete were Vizunah and THK.

Jan 26, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10	#12
sdrawkcab11 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2006 Profession: W/	I think heros and hench ruin a big part of the whole experience and atmosphere of the game, you might as well play a single player game imo. Also they all attack one target and if you keep switching targets they run around like fools. Yes it can be quicker but i would rather play with communication, teamwork and have a laugh than do it faster alone. I feel a main reason it is hard to find groups is because of hench and heros, if everyone had to the mission with others there would be more willing people.

Jan 26, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18	#13
Eli Rela Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Profession: N/	A good friend is best, even if he has no clue some time :-) But good friend with nicely build heroes is even better ;-) 2 ppl + 6 heroes = steamroller

Jan 26, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26	#16
Kuldebar Valiturus Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Garden City, Idaho Guild: The Order of Relumination (TOoR) Profession: R/	Yup, sdrawkcab11... I tend to agree. It's somewhat politically incorrect to say that on these forums...but Heroes and to a lesser extent Henchies are negatively impacting the game. I use Heroes/Henchies nearly 100% of the time. I have tried PuG's but they just weren't as efficient when it came to getting the Mission/Quest done. I would prefer to play with real human players but I haven't been able to develop any regular in-game friendships with people. Everyone is spread out and going 1000 different directions. Even a guild I was in...the people were nice...but they were all doing their own thing, often with Henchies/Heroes. I have played other online games, I know for a fact that I "play well" with others, but something just isn't clicking in Guild Wars in regards to that. My ideal would be to have 8-10 active players that hung around in game and progressed through the content together. But, there in lies the rub. Someone logs in 10 minutes late, they can't hop in and join the Mission or the adventure in the explorable area. Just meeting up together can be a task. Figuring out each other's quests (they fixed that, I think) and Voice Comm is really a necessity. Typing in chat and fighting doesn't work well. Players get pushed into using henchies/heroes. It's like the choice between ordering Pizza or fixing dinner; fixing dinner is a chore but you can eventually get tired of pizza. Ya, it is possible.

Jan 26, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37	#18
Spellforge Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Guildless Profession: N/	To the OP - heros can be vary affective. Please post the following info about your heros Level Profession(s) Skills Attributes Equipment Any Runes used

Jan 26, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01	#19
Mournblade Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Guild: Dawn Treaders [DAWN] Profession: W/Mo	If you want to discuss hero builds, go to the proper forum. :P My answer to the OP's question is rather simple - Use Henchies/Heros to beat the game (quests, missions, etc.) but grab some real players to have fun. There's a gaming group called Phank that I read about from time to time - they are hardcore players but they have just as much fun when they fail as when they win. I wish more people could enjoy themselves like that.